False prophets.....

[KnightoftheRose]

If GOD is perfect man must be too for we are made in his image.

Errr...Adam and Eve, the fall from grace? We WERE perfect, once...

But the church did not wish the people to know these things because otherwise you would not listen to their tales about salvation and then they could not control, dominate and keep people in the fear of GOD.

Um, no, the church excluded certain scriptures due to their uncertain origins. And claiming Christianity has been manipulated by the early Church in order to 'dominate' people is highly offensive.

GOD loves everyone for GOD does not judge

This is amusing. Where did you get that "God does not judge"? That's totally unbiblical.

Anti-love of anything or anyone is anti-christ for Jesus came to teach us love, love of self, love of others and most of all love of GOD.

Agreed, except for that tidbit about loving the self. Jesus taught us to give the self to anyone who asks ("And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain"). Self-giving and self-love don't walk hand-in-hand.

 

[lunamoth]

Dear Sacredstar,

I agree with KotR here--no need to keep saying that you think the Church is totally corrupt and evil and etc.. Evil and good have both been done in the name of the Church, but the Church is the Body of Christ and sacred to (many) Christians.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[Dor]

1. There is no separation only illusion of separation created by the church

Rom 6:23For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rev 14:11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
There is indeed seperation and it can be caused by the church and it can be taught by people who like to lead people astray but it is always caused by sin.

2. Its in scripture if you have the eyes to see GOD says we are faultless, behold you are the temple of the living GOD. Why would GOD tell his people they are the temple of the living GOD if we were not perfect in his image?

Eph 2:3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Rom 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
All humans have sinned except one, all of us except for Jesus have fallen short.

3. GOD loves everyone for GOD does not judge, which is why he sent Jesus to teach us not to judge others and love our neighbours as ourself, to love our enemies as ourself.

Hbr 9:27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
2Pe 3:7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Rev 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
There is judgement all through the bible. My judgement took place when Christ the annoited one, not some collective conscience nonsence, was crucified and resurrected for the sins of mankind if thou shall believe in him.

4. You will indeed be held responsible for every word Star.

Jer 14:14Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
1Jo 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1Jo 4:3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, all.

This is very true, this is Gods world but it’s ruled by man, man has free will and the knowledge wisdom, people choose within if they going to do Gods work, however people use Gods name wrongly. Anyone who causes suffering, hate, violence and intentional pain under the name of God or generally anything against the bible is a false prophet.

yet,…

“He exiled all the infidels from the village .They did not catch up their deads and funerals. In just a few times they abandoned the village and the population remains purely Greek.” Quoting an unnamed source –“Chapel of Saint Xenophontas (xorinou)” (This is used to describe the building of a church and the enthroning of the attendant Saint and icons as a result of religious genocide. –jt3)
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2186

Ummm, come on guys, shouldn’t we at least be consistent? It is difficult to see one political leader being ridiculed while another, (who it could easily be argued committed far worse crimes,) being praised.

I do think the bulk of the political commentary should be reserved for the political board. Generalized political comments are going to remain relevant, but detailed accounts of personal political positions are not appropriate to this board. This means you, Star.

Besides the fact which, it is difficult to see a bunch of looney tunes liberals trying to dictate religious creedos, when they can’t even get their own act straight. And I’m sorry but,

“Well the news has arrived and he is a man of justice and truth, he is a lawyer. ( –jt3, ROFLMAO! ) GOD bless us all and special prayers for this brave and courageous lawyer, on a mission from GOD.”

?
I find this absolutely hilarious, a lawyer as a man of god! Of course, then I must ask, which god?

I suppose next we should nominate Michael Moore to be the Secretary General of the UN? Like that would somehow make the world a better place? I don’t think so. These people are in it for the fame, the notoriety and the money. There is nothing spiritual or enlightening, most especially on a global level, that these people have in mind to achieve. They are not out to achieve any kind or form of universal brotherhood and peaceful interaction among peoples. They are in it for the money, plain and simple.

May I presume, Faithful and Bandit, that this is some of what you are implying with the other thread? I do think this thread is getting a bit out of control, and unlike the other thread I do think here it is from those who claim to know better, but their actions betray their insensitivities and callous disregard for others’ beliefs. If the behavior continues, doesn’t one think it serves to demonstrate in a concrete manner intolerance well beyond Christianity? And frankly Star, I am not certain how you consider yourself Christian in any more than the most superficial manner. I respect your beliefs, even if I disagree with them, but it seems to me you are implying that your path is somehow the correct path for all Christians. THAT, I most especially disagree with. I do think you bring a lot of superfluous contradiction into what you have to say, and deliberately confuse by talking over people’s heads instead of addressing questions and concerns directly. This does not make you appear wise, in any manner, shape or form. Rather, it speaks volumes about attempting to confuse in the hope of inflating personal ego. I was taught long ago, with reinforcement across many communication classes, that the first lesson in communication is to speak to your audience, at a level they understand. Otherwise, as someone else already pointed out and the hint was ignored, you become as “a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal,” which is unintelligible for human communication. And frankly, it has nothing to do with ears to hear or eyes to see, if there is nothing worth listening to or looking at.

 

[Bandit]

May I presume, Faithful and Bandit, that this is some of what you are implying with the other thread?

yes sir.
we dont want to force the bible on anyone, but we also do not want the bible to be taken away from us. we base our entire faith on spiritual matters and everyday principles and living on it.
we do not want to force Jesus as Lord on anyone. But we also do not want the Lord Jesus taken away from us.

maybe the early catholic church was like this, but not everyone is like this today. it grieves me deeply at the thought of someone taking away any of the books of the bible or my freedom to worship God through the man Jesus. I would rather be delivered to a terrible death for Gods eternal glory, than to suffer on earth and be made to deny any of the bible or that Jesus is my Lord.

While I do agree with many things in other teachings, when they contradict the bible I cannot choose the way of contradiction. I will not force my beliefs that differ from anyone, and that is all I am asking for in return.

Jesus does not have to be everyones Lord and Savior, but he is mine. One of the ways I have come to know God is through the bible and my freedom to study it and pray.
Not just for my own good, but for the good of others in the perfecting of the saints and to make earth a better place, while we wait and endure all tribulations to share in the glory of God in eternity.
I have tried other ways and listened to other beliefs yet they do not work for me.

My speech is true Juan.
Not for my own glory but for the glory of God who made me in His image and likeness. I do indeed love all of mankind and all of the creation, even when a man does wrong or brings harm to others. I do not justify breaking the law or hurting others, but I do not keep any bitterness or malice toward them either.
I do Love the Lord my God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength and nothing can separate me from His love.

 

[Postmaster]

“He exiled all the infidels from the village .They did not catch up their deads and funerals. In just a few times they abandoned the village and the population remains purely Greek.” Quoting an unnamed source –“Chapel of Saint Xenophontas (xorinou)” (This is used to describe the building of a church and the enthroning of the attendant Saint and icons as a result of religious genocide. –jt3)
http://www.comparative-religion.com...read.php?t=2186

juantoo3 First of all I didn't write that, second it's amazing of your attension to detail to make a discussion, third I'm only human, I sin forth, there are simply things we do not understand learn to accpet it as I have done so. Not every thing is "consistent" in life not even relgion itself. Think about the Joan of Arc example, how many died under her command? She spoke with saints. Are humans more superior to animals? Of course we are. Sometimes humans act worse then animals, then you find who is more superior within people. Man can get closer to God then a female thats why he is blessed.

 

[Sacredstar]

It was bandit that brought this topic into the political arena in respect of 9/11 and I responded to his post by providing a different reality to his own.

I have read all the recent posts and all I can say to you all is GOD help
humanity, if one cannot have a discussion without taking things personally or feeling attacked, the world as a very long way to go before the brotherhood of man will fufil GOD's plan for peace on earth.

Step not back into fear but step forwards into unconditional love.

May peace be with you all.

GOD bless

Sacredstar

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Postmaster, and if I haven't already done so, welcome to CR!

juantoo3 First of all I didn't write that, second it's amazing of your attension to detail to make a discussion, third I'm only human, I sin forth, there are simply things we do not understand learn to accpet it as I have done so. Not every thing is "consistent" in life not even relgion itself. Think about the Joan of Arc example, how many died under her command? She spoke with saints. Are humans more superior to animals? Of course we are. Sometimes humans act worse then animals, then you find who is more superior within people. Man can get closer to God then a female thats why he is blessed.

First, I realize you did not write the quote, but you did quote it, which implies agreement. And you have a personal stake in that it was your grandfather being spoken of. You are patriotic to your country, home and faith. There is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong in my view, is knocking others for being equally patriotic.

Second, attention to detail is important, in this case to see contradiction.

Third, I am human too, I have no grievance with making mistakes, I make them too. It is whether or not we learn from our mistakes.

Fourth, I realize there are some things that are difficult to understand, and some things we may never understand. But I also feel it is important to try to understand. When things do not add up, if there is contradiction, then something is not correct, either in our thinking, or in the thing being considered. That is how logic works.

Since Joan of Arc is brought into this, may I presume you are implying religious grounds for war are acceptable? If so, then please consider St. Augustine's principles for "Just War." I think you will find that G.W.Bush is waging a very just war, despite the opposition rhetoric. However, I will not expand on this as I made a promise to myself when I joined here, that I would not discuss this issue in any more than the most cursory way. I have already spent over 6 months discussing justification for warfare leading up to Iraq, and frankly it was a very taxing experience repeating myself over and over to the same tired arguments of people who could not read what had gone earlier, and were not respectful of others' opinions (meaning mine and the few who agreed with me). Thankfully, this was not discussed here, it was on another forum. Patriotism is not limited to Cyprus, neither should it be.

So, while I can accept you may have some difficulties with "Anyone who causes suffering, hate, violence and intentional pain under the name of God or generally anything against the bible...", in order to be consistant, you must apply this argument to everybody who ever did these things, or to no one. You cannot pick and choose and remain consistant.

Now, this response is as a participant, not a mod. I do not expect you to agree with me. What I do hope you will see is the fault in your logic. And isn't logic from the Greeks?

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Star.

It was bandit that brought this topic into the political arena in respect of 9/11 and I responded to his post by providing a different reality to his own.

I saw what Bandit posted, He mentioned 9/11 in passing, he did not go into a long drawn out justification of any sort.

I have read all the recent posts and all I can say to you all is GOD help
humanity, if one cannot have a discussion without taking things personally or feeling attacked, the world as a very long way to go before the brotherhood of man will fufil GOD's plan for peace on earth.

Does that include rereading your responses? One must admit, you get a little personal at times in your rebuttals. Just because you say someone shouldn't take things personally, does not mean they will not. A truly wise person would see and understand this. And even a wise person may sometimes goof up and cause insult, but the wise person will at least consider what mistake s/he made and how to correct it in the future, and offer apology to the offended party. The way this discussion is going, I can see it escalating with bruised egos and unrepentant pride. I hear you say you do not take things personally, and it is well that you do not when things are not meant personally. But when someone attacks, personally, and then says "do not take it personally," the words ring hollow and empty. Maybe you have elevated to some place where ego and pride mean nothing, but those things still mean a great deal to the rest of us. It would be well if you would keep this in mind, please.

 

[Postmaster]

juantoo3 nothing in life is consistent when you have people who have free will walking the earth. We all know love, peace unity and happiness is God. But People are in the image of God and have the knowledge of wisdom, they choose to commit evil and war and that’s what causes the phenomenon of war which is supported by the divine above! People who fight the just war are usually the weaker ones. And our government has been feeding a bunch of crap to us that is unjust and cynical. The war in Iraq only caused more hate towards the west, and more death. Where are the deadly weapons that Iraq apprently has? The only ones they found were the weapons that they sold to them when the CIA and US government backed Saddam int power, yes he was an evil person but don't you think the more evil ones are the ones that set him up at the expense of the Iraqi people? There is an endless list of benfits to the US after and during this war. You are misinformed and far from the truth.

 

[Quahom1]

Wait a minute, y'all may have just hit on something and answered another question posted elsewhere...


The question? Why are there no more prophets? Potential answer, we have the Bible (scripture).

So, anyone coming after the time (writing of the Bible), claiming to be a prophet of God, Jesus (the Christ), should be considered false (according to scripture). I mean, all prophesies about the eventual outcome of Man have been told, right? The Bible says so...

Has the Bible been proven true so far? Can anyone list the "prophets" who came after the writings of the Old and New Testament? What happened to the "prophets'" followers, and the "prophet" him/her self?

...this does not bode well for some "newer" religions...

Were we or were we not told there would be no more true "prophets" of God until the end time?

v/r

Q

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Postmaster!

As I said, I will not discuss this, most certainly not here. If you wish to discuss it, may I suggest taking it the the political section. And I would ask, do you even know of or about "Just War?" So far, I have not even seen the subject raised. So, perhaps somebody will be happy to answer your questions there, or at least make a study of the subject before reaching conclusions. If I may gently remind, this thread is focused on false prophets, not war. Do you not think it wise to return in the general direction the thread was intended rather than derailing with a peripheral subject?

 

[Quahom1]

Hate to do this Postmaster, but what does your post have to do with false prophets? This belongs in the politics section my friend...


v/r

Q

 

[Postmaster]

Quahom1 George Bush would be considered by some as a false Prophet?


juantoo3

• A just war can only be waged as a last resort. All non-violent options must be exhausted before the use of force can be justified. (Unfulfilled in Iraq)

 

[KnightoftheRose]

George Bush would be considered by some as a false Prophet?

Um, no. To be a false prophet, one must first make a false prophecy. And last I heard, Bush hasn't been making prophecies of any kind. So, that isn't even debatable.

Now, will you please drop this issue, or take it Politics and Society, out of respect for other forum members' wishes?

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Knight of the Rose

I agree

Dear Q

My understanding is that there would be no more prophets after Mohammad that would instigate religions with rites of worship. But as you so rightly say the bible does predict there will be other prophets in the end times and many of us feel we are in these end times and the revelations are being fufilled between now and 2012 with the worst over the next 2-3 years as the dark and light forces meet head on.

As I understand it Star Wars is over the last battle is being played out here on earth but the good news is that the power is with the spiritual man and it is time for us to bring our warriors home to peace as humanity needs its peaceful warriors more then ever before. Humanity is facing the iron fist and I guess when the people are punch drunk they might decide to take responsible action with the steel of GOD's will to good compelled by love into compassionate action. I pray sooner rather then later!

The prophets are here Q, but apart from GODs recognition few humans recognise them or are open to listening to GOD's message, even Jesus had the same problem hence his words 'a prophet is not recognised in his own village' so the modern day seers and prophets have a very hard time, but yet they know all is well. For instance the message of hope that GOD gave us about the man of justice coming after the Iraq war began; as you can see from this thread, the fulfilment of this prophecy was not well received by CR or with any sign of acceptance, tolerance or love. Let us pray that this improves and we can create a bridge of peace maybe that is a job for you my friend being the peace keeper, perhaps you are willing and it is GOD's will for you to be the bridge builder too?

So that humanity can indeed meet on the bridge that you build.

I thought this quote from Romans was beautiful and I have shared it with my colleagues.

8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of GOD. 28: And we know that all things work together for good to them that love GOD, to them who are called according to his purpose. 29: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son. That he might be the first born among many breathen. 30: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31: What shall we say to things? If GOD be for US, who can be against us?

The first born are those of us that have moved through the eye of the needle and are doing our utmost to encourage the creation of the Kingdom of Love, we have been called by GOD. The first born are the 'new adam' mentioned in Revelations, new positive human beings living in a state of GOD's grace and Christ Consciousness which some of us call the 5th dimension.

It is the job of the first born to assist their brothers and sisters to also move through the eye of the needle, so that we can be the brotherhood of man in action, Brother Sun, Sister Moon, hand in hand, side by side in the front line. The charioteers leading the ascent of the planet and its people. It is no easy task to be a first born for like all first born children, they have the hardest time of all crossing new frontiers of understanding of that which parents have not been trained or experienced before.

Thank you for allowing me to share it feels like you a first born too!

Dear Juantoo

Thank you for your love and zero judgement!

Blessings in abundance

Sacredstar

 

[KnightoftheRose]

So, anyone coming after the time (writing of the Bible), claiming to be a prophet of God, Jesus (the Christ), should be considered false (according to scripture).

But wait, isn't prophecy one of the gifts the Holy Spirit give to people even today? Or has the Holy Spirit stopped giving that particular gift? Or does prophesying have nothing to do with being a true prophet (are there other attributes necessary to be a true prophet)? Does anyone know some passages which will clear this up? Why is this entire paragraph written in question form?

 

[Sacredstar]

1. But wait, isn't prophecy one of the gifts the Holy Spirit give to people even today? Or has the Holy Spirit stopped giving that particular gift?

2. Or does prophesying have nothing to do with being a true prophet (are there other attributes necessary to be a true prophet)?

3. Does anyone know some passages which will clear this up?

4. Why is this entire paragraph written in question form?

Dear Knight of the Rose

1. All have the gift of the holy spirit and prophecy for self but as the biblical quote above describes some have been pre-chosen and pre-determined for special missions as messengers of GOD to enlighten the rest of humanity, and these people work with the saints as mentioned above and some call these saints the Ascended Masters.

2. If you go back over this thread I did post the decriptions for a true prophet. Looking at the work of the minor prophets is also interesting when I viewed this a year or so ago it was enlightening that all the minor prophets were engaged in delivering GOD's word for justice, emotive social evolution to bring about social reform and new ways of being. GOD sent them when the people were most in trouble from transgression of GOD's law. I will get back with a link for the site that provides wonderful insights about the minor prophets.

3. See earlier on the thread

4. well the entire paragraph isn't but the last few words are

31: What shall we say to things? If GOD be for US, who can be against us?

I feel this is saying 'what shall we say to the people when we tell them who we are? If GOD be for us there is nothing to fear but yet who can be against us and GOD's word.

36: As it is written, for thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37: Nay, in all these things we are more then conquerors through him that loved us.

38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principaliteis, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of GOD, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

"You are the light of the world,
the flame of love that purifies
whatever stands in the way
of complete oneness with GOD"

And it is GOD's will and GOD's will, will be done so that peace can reign on earth.

Blessings in abundance

Sacredstar

 

[Postmaster]

Um, no. To be a false prophet, one must first make a false prophecy. And last I heard, Bush hasn't been making prophecies of any kind. So, that isn't even debatable.

Now, will you please drop this issue, or take it Politics and Society, out of respect for other forum members' wishes?

Prophecy doesn't just mean looking into the future, it is a person who speaks wise words of divine in the name of God.

George Bush is a prime example He thinks he's chosen figure by God even Christopher Reeves said it in an interview. He's 100% False. Michale Moore exposed George Bush was arrested 3 times in his life, one of charges was for drink driving!! WE ARE FREE WILL PEOPLE.

WAKE UP PEOPLE.

To me Christopher Reeves (RIP) and Michael Moore are doing more work of GOD.

 

[Sacredstar]

Dear Knight of the Rose

Here is a link for the website on the work of the minor prophets mentioned in the bible I have copied the information that I originally posted when I discovered it.

July 2004

In my meditation today I was given Jonah and the Whale and following some research it is interesting to discover that Jesus himself likens himself to Jonah and no other OT prophet.

Jonah is the only "minor prophet" ever to be mentioned by Jesus Christ. He is also the only OT figure that Jesus Himself likens unto Himself (Matthew 12:39-41; 16:4; Luke 11:29-32). Although some contend this book is a fable and that Jonah never actually lived, the biblical evidence is to the contrary. II Kings 14:25 speaks of him as an actual historical figure. So does Jesus Christ. Josephus (an early Jewish historian) also regarded him as historical rather than fictional (Antiquities of the Jews, Book 9, Chapter 10, Sections 1-2). Also, when Paul wrote that Jesus "was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures" (I Corinthians 15:4), he may well have been alluding, at least in part, to Jonah's experience.

The full story can be found on this website and one can see another reason why Jesus said 'father forgive them for they know not what they do'. I wish I had a £5 note for everytime I have said those words during my life.

http://www.zianet.com/maxey/Proph8.htm

being love

Sacredstar