Bandit said:
right but you must not be a Christian & bible believer then. so you would naturally believe that the kingdom is not a collection of people & that heaven is not a place as well as a condition. you must be a mystic or something ...teaching ego & mind & that stuff.
As my name thingie suggests, I am a mystic. That does not mean I am New Age, nor does it mean I teach "ego & mind & that stuff." I am actually quite *not* New Age/New Thought. There is a long tradition of Christian mysticism, going back to the time shortly after Jesus, and including many saints throughout the time since. No, I am not a mainstream Christian. But that doesn't make me New Age either. Mysticism is, by anthropological definition, a seeking of the personal spiritual experience of the Divine. My spiritual path of mysticism is thus about experiencing God in a real way, in life right now. I do not label myself as any denomination, but liberal Quaker comes the closest. Mysticism is not a religion, it is a spiritual path that exists in many religions, including Christianity.
trying to enter the kingdom any other way is as a thief and a robber...we just read it. it is funny how people want to leave Jesus as Lord, out of the kingdom of God today.
Actually, I'm not trying to leave Jesus as Lord out of the Kingdom of God. I am just saying that I do not think it is a place, or a body of people, but rather a spiritual reality that I can experience in the here and now. This definition is supported by scholars of the Bible and though I came to that conclusion based on my own experience and prayer, it is supported by various references, including Bible dictionaries. In the Revell Concise Bible Dictionary, it was stated that: "Heaven is often spoken of as the realm of God in the NT (Mt 3:17, 6:1 and 9, 7:11; Lk 11:13, Heb 1:3, 8:1, 9:24). this use maintains the dualism seen in Hebrew cosmology. . . Yet God is not limited to the heavens. . . The NT, using the same metaphorical language, affirms that Jesus "came down from heaven" (Jn 6:4) and after the resurrection, Christ returned to heaven (Acts 1:11, Col 4:1).
Yet heaven is not so much a location as the spiritual realm itself, a timeless dimension that touches earth while remaining distinct from it. Paul says that our citizenship is in heaven (Phil 3:20), our treasures are to be laid up in heaven (Mt 6:20), our true home (Eph 3:19, Heb 12:22)." So at least some biblical scholars have come to the same conclusions I have.
path_of_one...do you believe Jesus died for your sins & that through his blood we have redemption? & do you confess Jesus is Lord & Savior?
My beliefs on this matter are complex and are still evolving as I study the Bible, biblical scholarship, and bring my questions to God in prayer. I believe that Jesus sacrificed Himself for the good of humanity. I do not believe that the sacrifice was necessary for God to allow us into His presence. I believe the sacrifice was necessary to save us from ourselves- to lift the veil between God and ourselves that was not imposed by God, but rather by us.
I believe there are various spiritual paths that lead one to God. In Romans 1:16-20, we find that Paul says that (1) the Gospel of Christ delivers from eternal death if we have faith (which I interpret to be Christ's teachings, the Good News), (2) that those who have not heard the teaching have no excuse, because what we know of God is evident within us (the Word is written on our hearts), and (3) that those who were before the time of Jesus had no excuse, because we can know God's eternal power and divinity through His "handiworks"- His creation. So we can come to know God through the teachings of Jesus, through listening to His Word written on our souls, and/or by knowing Him through the glory of His creation.
I choose all three. I have, through mystical experience, felt the Father's presence, and it is incomprehensibly big and I cannot find the words to fully express how much it exceeded what my little mind had thought. My first personal mystical experience of God happened when I was ten years old, and it wasn't until later that I was given the words to even partially express the feelings I had of eternity and infinity. Mysticism is a natural spiritual path for me, and those experiences began in my very early childhood. Indeed, I believe the Word of God is imprinted on our souls and is within us, if we will only listen. And when we listen, we enter the presence of God and thus heaven.
I also believe that God has imprinted His divine power and eternal nature, as scripture says, on all of creation. I am nature-oriented, and that too has been natural for me ever since I could walk. It, too, is a mystical experience of God for me. I hear His voice on the wind and feel His gentle touch in the rain. I see the amazing beauty and diversity of the earth, and the care and detail He lovingly bestowed on all of nature. It does not fit with mainstream Christianity, but through my experience and prayer, I came to truly believe in the sacredness of all life, and the sentience of it. I do not believe nature is the Creator, or is to be worshipped, but I believe it is to be held as sacred, as another of God's testimonies of love for us. To me, it is like sacred scripture, having the power to reveal God's character.
And I also believe in the Gospel of Christ. Jesus is my Lord and my Savior. I cherish His teachings, and I freely admit that I am not mainstream in my interpretation of some of them, nor do I (unlike most Christians) hold the OT and the Epistles in the same regard as I do the teachings of the Christ. I suppose you could call me a Christ-follower, but not a follower of the organized Christian religion. Rather than follow any set doctrine, I read the Word and then prayerfully meditate on it until I receive some wisdom. I also seek to understand the cultures, languages, and religions of the times through academic scholarship. I believe that the scriptures can be more fully understood if we can transcend the linguistic and cultural barriers that naturally arise between 2005 U.S. and 30 AD Middle East. I believe that it is Jesus' teachings, His life that is the key to salvation, not His death. His death, I believe, was still necessary and showed the absolute sinlessness and faithfulness to principle of the Christ. If Jesus had fought His death it would have contradicted His teachings on peacefulness and loving one's enemies. My beliefs are informed, in part, by me being a Gentile. Jesus Himself said that He came specifically for the Jewish people, and it was only after His death that Christians actively went to the Gentiles. My ancestors, my people, were not under the boundaries of the law and so were not required sacrifice to atone for sin. I can only conclude from the aforementioned Romans scripture that my people would have fallen into the category of knowing God through His creation and His imprint within them. So I believe it is the Gospel of Christ (that is, Jesus' teachings) and not Jesus' death that is a path of salvation for myself.
I have no doubt that many Christians would not consider me to be a Christian, and I have been told by sundry Christians that I am "weak" (actually, my beliefs are quite strong thank you) and "struggling" (who isn't?). But my spiritual path is one that has come from years of study and prayer and experiencing God's boundless love and grace, and I refuse to be ashamed of it or change my beliefs because they do not fit in with mainstream churches. To me, that would be blasphemy. So I just stick to my "path of one" and rejoice that others, too, have found a path that has led them to the love of God.
. Jesus was all about breaking down barriers and extending the Kindom of God beyond its man-made confines. I don't think it's following in the spirit of his teaching to start fencing ourselves in to keep the barbarians out. Triumphalism is NOT us!
