Hell is a Hoax

Quahom1 said:
Whether there is fire and brimstone or an absence of God...what is the difference? It is hell. To burn in agony, or suffer the agony of being alone, never to touch the face of God...I think I would rather burn forever, rather than not be able to be close to God...
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Mankind already feels seperated from God; even so called true believers struggle with the idea that we are connected, and have always been connected with Him.

The only seperation is that of our own making. We [feel] seperated because of the suffering, and inner turmoil we endure via sin in us, and in world. [imho]

Love,

James
 
Gatekeeper said:
Mankind already feels seperated from God; even so called true believers struggle with the idea that we are connected, and have always been connected with Him.

The only seperation is that of our own making. We [feel] seperated because of the suffering, and inner turmoil we endure via sin in us, and in world. [imho]

Love,

James
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of course. Sin is to be out of balance with God, plain and simple. Nothing out of balance works the way it is supposed to.
 
Quahom1 said:
of course. Sin is to be out of balance with God, plain and simple. Nothing out of balance works the way it is supposed to.
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Yeah, we have made a mess of things, eh? That's alright, tho. Christ has come to set us free from the cycle of sin, and suffering.

wOOt! :D

James
 
Gatekeeper said:
There are no 'true' Philanthropist existing that I know of. Giving [is] a semi-selfish act, as we do recieve gratification from doing such. [You are correct.]

What's your point, tho?

Love,

James
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Last one left us about 2000 years ago...
 
Quahom1 said:
You charge man, with crimes comitted centuries ago...I am not guilty of my forefather's behavior (that too is biblical).
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Gatekeeper:
There are no 'true' Philanthropist existing that I know of. Giving [is] a semi-selfish act, as we do recieve gratification from doing such. [You are correct.]

What's your point, tho?
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I make charge against no-one Q. I merely point out the fact of evangelical history and how intentions do not always meet realities. I find evangelism often not to be what it is painted, that it is misunderstood. Rather than spreading the word to bring more people to God it can be viewed as a vanity of ego. That it takes converts to a message to keep propped up the validity of ones beliefs. That it is a selfish need for justification by having others change their beliefs to agree with you. I see this as especially true amongst certain cults like JW,s and Scientologists. I find it nauseating.

Tao
 
Gatekeeper said:
Yeah, we have made a mess of things, eh? That's alright, tho. Christ has come to set us free from the cycle of sin, and suffering.

wOOt! :D

James
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and dont forget DEATH , God (Jehovah) is going to use Jesus to acomplish many things and swallowing up death for ever is a real nice thing to look forward to.

And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."REVELATION 21;4


(Isaiah 25:8) He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken [it].​


(1 Corinthians 15:26) As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.


And then people will be able to live on the earth for ever just as God originally intended.


Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
matthew 5;5
But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,​

And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.pslm 37;11

The righteous themselves will possess the earth,​

And they will reside forever upon it. psalm 37;29:)



that original serpent (satan)may have put a spanner in the works back in the Garden of Eden,


but right away God put something in place to fix it.


and things are well along now, and soon Death will be swallowed up FOREVER.



And death and Ha´des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. REVELATION 20;14


Yes as the symbolic book of revelation tells , it will be DESTROYED, GONE .:)

 
mee said:
and dont forget DEATH , God (Jehovah) is going to use Jesus to acomplish many things and swallowing up death for ever is a real nice thing to look forward to.

And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."REVELATION 21;4


(Isaiah 25:8) He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken [it].​

(1 Corinthians 15:26) As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.


And then people will be able to live on the earth for ever just as God originally intended.


Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
matthew 5;5
But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,​
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.pslm 37;11

The righteous themselves will possess the earth,​
And they will reside forever upon it. psalm 37;29:)



that original serpent (satan)may have put a spanner in the works back in the Garden of Eden,


but right away God put something in place to fix it.


and things are well along now, and soon Death will be swallowed up FOREVER.



And death and Ha´des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. REVELATION 20;14


Yes as the symbolic book of revelation tells , it will be DESTROYED, GONE .:)
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Nice, mee!! :)
 
Gatekeeper said:
Nice, mee!! :)
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the thought of living forever on a paradise earth is not something that humans are familiar with ,we have never done that ,we have always been in a sinful dieing state , so to talk about living forever seems like a dream to most people, which is understandable really, but dieing was not Gods original purpose for humans. when people talk about living forever they sometimes dismiss it , because they think of living on the earth as the earth is now ,with all of the problems that go with it .WAR SICKNESS, CRIME, INJUSTISE, OLDAGE .but if those things were out of the way the world would be a quite different place.

AND when we think about it , if we were in perfect health and mind ,when would be the day when we would wake up in the morning and say ,OK I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO DIE TODAY .i dont think we would want to do that, it is only the effects of oldage and sickness ect ect that bring those thoughts about.
 
Hell is the furnace [Purification]

Mat 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.​

Mat 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire."



Sound pretty scary, huh? Let me ask you this: How do we get the impurities out of metal? [You know the answer]

We are baptized with Spirit and with fire according to John, so it is safe to assume that the fire part is about purifying us.


From the mouth of Jesus:



Luke 12:49 I am come to sendfire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?



The fire is already kindled on earth. Earth is the furnace - Hell. We live, and we learn from sin, and the suffering/torment it causes - [If we are mindful.]



Hell is the state of suffering through sin. We are in the process of purification when we have both the Spirit, and life, [A baptism] We must become mindful of our actions, and the spirits, or [Spirit] we live through.


Jesus goes on to say this:



Luk 12:50 I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress until it is accomplished!



Jesus has shown us the way to free ourselves from the suffering we endure on Earth [Hell] It is through the fire that is kindled on earth, and through the Spirit of Christ, [which is the Word of God], that we are purified.


Only through His Spirit and the fire [hell], are we able to make our escape from sin, and become purified, and/or “cleansed“.



Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.



What does the sword represent, Here? Is it a ‘literal’ slaying of mankind through violence?


No!!!


Consider Ephesians 6



Eph 6:17 take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which [is] the word of God.



We have a duty to proclaim what has been shown to us through the Spirit, or rather through the Word of God, which is also the Spirit of truth. [Agape - Love]


Mat 10:27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops.


Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Joh 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.



Jesus says the Spirit of truth [Him] dwells with the disciples, and that He will be [in] them.



He says will not leave you as orphans will come to you. [He lives] in the father and we in Him, an He in us.


Jesus tells us to.......


Mat 10:28 not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.



Who is Christ talking about, here? I’m of the mind that He is speaking about ourselves, our carnal nature. We have a choice to serve sin, and death - on earth [as] hell, or to serve Him, and live in The Fathers grace right here on earth. Good news!!


There is nothing to fear, but ourselves. Why? Because God Loves us!!!



Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.



God allowed us to create a hell on earth, so we might recognize our need for Him, and come to know Him through His son.



Mat 10:38And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.



We must die to ourselves, and be made knew in Jesus’ image, and we can only do this by living through His Spirit, or the "Word" of God.



Rom 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things?

[If God is for us, who can be against us?]


Love,

James
 
Tao_Equus said:
I make charge against no-one Q. I merely point out the fact of evangelical history and how intentions do not always meet realities. I find evangelism often not to be what it is painted, that it is misunderstood. Rather than spreading the word to bring more people to God it can be viewed as a vanity of ego. That it takes converts to a message to keep propped up the validity of ones beliefs. That it is a selfish need for justification by having others change their beliefs to agree with you. I see this as especially true amongst certain cults like JW,s and Scientologists. I find it nauseating.

Tao
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Tao,

This is a bit of its own topic, but I must respond.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree that there has been much suffering and sin resulting from some evangelical/missionary endeavors. However, I would put forth that there has also been good, more in recent times but even some arising from earlier missions.

As is true with all religions, politics, or philosophies, there are those who would use them for their own gain, twisting the greater good and service to others (and love) with their own desires and fears. While we may not be able to fully reach the level of love that Christ had (although Christ did command us to be perfect, insinuating that we might if we can empty ourselves enough to fill up with him), we can see people whose primary focus on loving and serving others did ease others' suffering, both materially and spiritually.

Furthermore, I would also put forth that there are two additional dimensions of sharing the Good News that are often overlooked when one becomes focused on the negative results of insincere or ignorant missionaries: first, that just as God does with all sin, He can find ways to work through even the most ignorant or insincere to others' benefit and second, that sharing the Good News does not always mean a call to obtain converts (for themselves, for a church, for God, or for oneself).

In the first case, I myself have spoken to people who had great material suffering as a result of missionaries, who still insisted that they were grateful, no matter how much they wished the missionaries had been less ignorant, prejudiced, or selfish. That is, they came to a sincere place of knowing Christ and God's love, and this changed them fundamentally, and despite disagreeing with much of various churches practices and how evangelism was carried out, they were still grateful for it, since it brought them to their greatest joy, which was experiencing God.

In the second, there are Christians who neither try to win converts, nor feel that sharing the Good News is about converting people to Christian churches. For example, in my case, I firmly believe I am called to share the Gospel and God's love with all I meet. But this does not mean I need to use words, or talk about religion at all. In most cases, I feel called to smile, to be available for them to speak about their burdens, to be friendly and helpful, to reach out my energy in love, to encourage, to uplift. I am not saying this is the only way to share the Gospel, or the best way, or the right way. But I am saying that for some of us, we are more called to try to act as Christ's feet and hands than as His mouth. Occasionally I do feel called to share with someone, but it is generally at their bidding, or when they are in great turmoil and ask me what might alleviate their suffering. And then I offer Christ and the Bible not as the "right answer," but in all honesty, the only answer I know. And I tell them that- there are many religions to choose from, and many sacred texts, and many others who have far more love, patience, gentleness, and peace than I have (including from other religions). I tell them I am not the best person to answer that question, but I will offer what I can. And what I can offer is that although I find joy and peace in many things, when I am in despair it is Christ who finds me and picks me up. And it is Christ in me that calls me to self-contemplation, to repentence, and to a better life. It is Christ that saves me. For that reason, he is my King and my Lord. He is the best gift I have to offer someone else, whether through my actions or through my words.

I could care less about how many people are Christians. I have often walked my path alone, and indeed, I sometimes feel less understood by Christians than people of other faiths. It is not about the social groups and labels of religion and who belongs where, and how many people come to church on Sunday for me. For some of us, we believe in sharing Christ because it is the best thing we have to give. Plain and simple.

This thread has become ever more interesting. Thanks to all who have brought in Biblical passages- they are very good for contemplation.

Path
 
Tao_Equus said:
I make charge against no-one Q. I merely point out the fact of evangelical history and how intentions do not always meet realities. I find evangelism often not to be what it is painted, that it is misunderstood. Rather than spreading the word to bring more people to God it can be viewed as a vanity of ego. That it takes converts to a message to keep propped up the validity of ones beliefs. That it is a selfish need for justification by having others change their beliefs to agree with you. I see this as especially true amongst certain cults like JW,s and Scientologists. I find it nauseating.

Tao
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And democrats and republicans...and urbanites and ruralites, and nations, and ethnicities, and creeds, and color, isn't that simply a microcosim of life?
 
Thank you Path and Q,

You are both of course perfectly correct. Forgive me but as a newly converted evangelising atheist I have a lot of learning to do :p

I am very aware that very many people of faith are unselfish and only seek to be simple good people because that is their true nature. I will try and be more careful to give credit where credit is due and balance my statements.


:)

Tao
 
yes, Hell is a hoax .
The clergy have put fire into the word “hell,” the vital question is, Did the inspired Hebrew Bible writers say that conscious life and red-hot activity exist in Sheol or hell? No, quite the opposite! Instead of blazing fire it is described as a “land of darkness.” (Job 10:21) Instead of a place of soul-chilling shrieks it is described as a place of “silence.” (Ps. 115:17) oh dear the clergy have a lot to answer for.:rolleyes:
 
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