Are jehovah's witnesses Christians

Are jehovah's witnesses Christians ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 64.0%
  • No

    Votes: 9 36.0%

  • Total voters
    25
Just a quick question - which version of Christianity are JW's being accused as not being a part of?

Let's be truthful here - every single denomination has rewritten how the Bible should be interpreted and added to it.

Therefore if anyone wishes to claim which denominations are outside of Christianity, let's first define which denomination defines Christianity wholly and without question. :)
 
Let's be truthful here - every single denomination has rewritten how the Bible should be interpreted and added to it.

Firstly, that is not true.

Therefore if anyone wishes to claim which denominations are outside of Christianity, let's first define which denomination defines Christianity wholly and without question. :)
And, the Jehovah's Witness Cult is not a denomination ! it is an abomination :D
 
Firstly, that is not true.

Really!

And, the Jehovah's Witness Cult is not a denomination ! it is an abomination

This is all getting rather personal in my opinion. Who are you, or anybody else here to judge what makes somebody a "Christian" or not.
Take people for what they are!:) A lot of posters on this thread regard themselves as "Christians" I think it's very "un-Christian" for them to be deciding if somebody is "Christian" or not to be honest.
Who's going to be the next target then? We all know this is indirectly aimed at one person who visits here and it stinks.
 
Are you kidding? This is how Jesus said Christians would be recognized:
John 13:34-35
34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
Sectarian tests are not how you separate Christ's disciples from the non-disciples, according to Jesus....

Really!



This is all getting rather personal in my opinion. Who are you, or anybody else here to judge what makes somebody a "Christian" or not.
Take people for what they are!:) A lot of posters on this thread regard themselves as "Christians" I think it's very "un-Christian" for them to be deciding if somebody is "Christian" or not to be honest.
Who's going to be the next target then? We all know this is indirectly aimed at one person who visits here and it stinks.
Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[a] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Love Fulfills the Law


7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. 12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
 
Firstly, that is not true.

Okay, tell me which denomination of Christianity provides the one true definition of what constitutes "real" Christianity, and I'll be happy to throw that recommendation to the community for a vote. :)
 
Okay, tell me which denomination of Christianity provides the one true definition of what constitutes "real" Christianity, and I'll be happy to throw that recommendation to the community for a vote. :)

all of them.
 
So if all are included, what is the basis for exclusion? :)
 
Hi Brian —

I am probably more guilty (?) than most of challenging Mee ... but then Mee is probably more guilty (?) than most of implying that Trinitarian doctrine is not scripture-based.

But in the broader question, as I think we can say that Christianity in all its versions regards Jesus Christ as God, certainly for the first 1,500 years ... in fact it might be easier to identify who do not believe in the Son's divinity — I think one can say that is not a Christian viewpoint.

Let's be truthful here - every single denomination has rewritten how the Bible should be interpreted and added to it.
Hang on ... certainly there is the argument that tradition interprets its own scripture — that's common sense, and the sola scriptura argument falls down on the fact that those who promulgated that doctrine were very quick to execute anyone who didn't interpret scripture their way ...

... but in terms of 'rewriting' — I think that's a questionable assertion. Translation is an art, for sure, but there's a difference, and introducing non-existing material into the text, under the guise of 'translation', to alter or mask the text's actual meaning — I think the JWs are top of the list on that one.

Personally, I think BlaznFattyz's list is a good one.

Thomas
 
So if all are included, what is the basis for exclusion? :)

well Brian, I dont have all the answers !

but for starters IMO Jesus is God, as in the trinity Father, Son, Holy spirit, if you drift away from this which IMO really is a fundamental belief for Christians IMO you have stepped outside the boundaries of Christianity.

dont get me wrong JW have the right to believe what they want, however I object when it is passed off as Christianity, which it isnt.
 
I would think they are. And so does Wikipedia. But then, hey, what's a religion? :rolleyes:

Jehovah's Witnesses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I haven't voted due to my all-encompassing ignorance of the matter.

::thinks:: Why would mee relentlessly post in the Christianity forum and quote the Bible then? To put us all off the scent? :confused:

s.
 
Persecution has always been about authority and politics, not Sola Scriptura or any other ridiculous labels used to excuse the guilty. Cease to smear the good name of the Vaudois, Moravians and other gentle protestors who lived in peace and died for their faith at the hands of Catholic and Protestant authorities! Both authorities came together to destroy 'heretics', 'rebaptizers' and 'any' that refused their absolute authority. Sola Scriptura is merely a label used to besmirch the good by the bad. So many Protestants and Catholics remained in their seats only out of fear, but seats -- merely chunks of wood -- have somehow become idols.

Surely you see a similarity between this and this phrase from Jesus' parable in Matt 24:48-49 "But if that wicked servant says to himself, `My master is delayed,' and begins to beat his fellow servants,..."
 
Why would mee relentlessly post in the Christianity forum?

I am not speaking for mee, of course.

It is my impression that the Witnesses of Jehovah follow a sort of Jjana yoga or way of knowledge. Study is an integral part of the follower's way of life. Also, proselytizing is obligatory, probably to gain "merit," and the relentless copy/paste-postings of Watchtower materials (their translation) is probably motivated by this sense of obligation.

So, as an analogy, can one say that practitioners of one manner of yoga are not true Hindu's, because they differ from others?

For me the true test lies not in the doctrine, but in the Spirit, for "he who has not the Spirt of Christ has no part in Him." Thus, when I encounter a Witness in the street --- on duty on a Saturday morning --- and I unmistakably discern the beauty of the Spirit of Holiness in their countenance, I cannot but encourage them in their faith, (and thus a holy life), just as I would a Roman or a Neo-Pentacostal Charismatic: it is the fruit of the Spirit of Truth and Love that gives the true testimony of the Divine.

And, given the limitations of e-communication, and my little contact our gentle JW champion, my sense of the spirit in which mee participates does not allow me to doubt that mee is being transformed by the renewal of the mind, and being changed from one degree of glory to the next, into the image of true righteousness and holiness ---- in spite of the history and doctrines of the JW's (in general), and not because of some doctrines (in particular). These are means, and the JW's is mee's way, or spiritual path. It's just as valid as anybody else's.

Respectfully,

Learner
 
It strikes me that JWs have themselves declared that they are not part of the rest of Christianity (to JWs aka as the whore of babylon).

If you draw a circle around yourself and declare everone else wrong, who is responsible for the separation?

That said, I think it is not for us to judge who is a 'Christian' or 'saved' and who is not. As Seattlegal pointed out, it only leads to devouring each other and tearing down, rather than healing and building up.
 
Last edited:
I voted- yes...
much as I disagree with JW's on points of doctrine I disagree with catholics in the same way.

Do they put Jesus at the centre of their belief system? do they read the bible, and try to follow the commandments? then they are christians.
 
Okay, tell me which denomination of Christianity provides the one true definition of what constitutes "real" Christianity, and I'll be happy to throw that recommendation to the community for a vote. :)
all of them.
So if all are included, what is the basis for exclusion? :)

I believe this is a case of is "Is the glass half-empty or half-full?" I am thus not in disagreement with GloryToGod, but I would still have a different view of the situation. It's another one of those optimist vs. pessimist situations.

GloryToGod is inclined to say they're all included (optimist), but I'm inclined to say that no denomination has the ultimate truth about Christianity. The truth about Christianity is in the hands of the one who brought it into the world: Jesus. His Kingdom is not of this world, but is of a world external to the one in which we dwell.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except through me." It wouldn't make sense, therefore, for any church or denomination to have the ultimate truth about Christianity because only Jesus can ever be that truth.

A church or denomination that proclaims it is the one and only true Christianity is leading people astray. The statement in the above paragraph is a reminder to us all not to forget who the gate-keeper is of Christianity.

My view on arguments about Trinity, divinity, deity and polytheism is that they distract us from really understanding the phenomenon of Jesus. Christianity is not a science and nor is it a religion of technicalities. Christianity is a religion of the heart and for that reason I don't believe we should even be arguing about Trinity, divinity, deity and polytheism because these things have nothing to do with the heart of the individual seeking God but are fleeting notions of cold logic that detract from the experience of the heart and soul of Christianity.

Whether we are talking about JWs or non-JWs, what matters is that we live Christianity with the heart not the head. Some JWs and non-JWs live with their heads. They are the ones who are most likely to argue with each other about whether the other is being Christian or not. Those who live with their hearts know that these arguments are pointless.

I don't believe in the WatchTower Society. I don't believe in Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Anglicanism, Anabaptism, Baptism, etc. I believe in Jesus.

I don't believe in organisations and ideology, but I do believe in people. I believe in Jesus, in Catholics, in Mormons, in Jehovah's Witnesses, in Anglicans, in Baptists, Anabaptists, etc. I denounce the organisation and its ideology, but not the person.

When the issue comes up as to whether a Catholic, Protestant, Mormon or JW is "in the light," I believe it is only necessary to say one thing: that Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except through me." Everything else is unnecessary IMHO.

Take away the WatchTower Society, the Roman Catholic Church, the Mormon Church and all the little Protestant churches, the man-made kingdoms of Christianity, take away the doctrines we have formed in the past 2,000 years, especially the Trinity, which was a by-product of politics in the fourth century, and one thing remains: Jesus.

One may think that tradition is important. I say nay. Tradition is only temporary. Tradition only exists for adherents to find common ground in a community. The purpose of tradition is to maintain a collective psyche, to assure ourselves that we gather together for the same purpose. Unfortunately, people won't always agree about traditions.

Jesus is beyond tradition. The Trinity or whatever alternative concept you have about Jesus' relationship with God is tradition that arises out of politics local to a time, place and culture. When you argue about Trinity and its alternatives you are arguing about tradition. It's a fact that Jesus never said you had to believe in the Trinity, and nor did he ever say it was essential to get the nature of God right.

These beliefs arose out of the politics of the fourth century because of Arianism, where it was believed that it was important to get the nature of God right. Before then, I am sure, Christians didn't really care. Arius duped the Christians into caring about the nature of God, and ever since we've been arguing about it. Arianism has since disappeared into insignificance, but it was a very nice way of sabotaging and undermining Christianity and getting people focused on the wrong things. I think it's best that we move on and leave these mistakes behind.

If people bicker over the Trinity, its alternatives and the nature of God, it's done out of habit. It's become a tradition. The past generation contemplated the nature of God in Christianity, so the present generation continues it. The trouble is that people spend so much time contemplating the nature of God in Christianity but they forget to ask themselves if it's even necessary in Christianity.

When you read in the New Testament about all the struggles the early Christian community faced, how often did the apostles say it was important to contemplate the nature of God? My impression was that they were more concerned about their relationship with God than His nature. What wasn't essential or necessary for the early Christians is not essential or necessary for us either.
 
I believe this is a case of is "Is the glass half-empty or half-full?" I am thus not in disagreement with GloryToGod, but I would still have a different view of the situation. It's another one of those optimist vs. pessimist situations.

GloryToGod is inclined to say they're all included (optimist), but I'm inclined to say that no denomination has the ultimate truth about Christianity. The truth about Christianity is in the hands of the one who brought it into the world: Jesus. His Kingdom is not of this world, but is of a world external to the one in which we dwell.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except through me." It wouldn't make sense, therefore, for any church or denomination to have the ultimate truth about Christianity because only Jesus can ever be that truth.

A church or denomination that proclaims it is the one and only true Christianity is leading people astray. The statement in the above paragraph is a reminder to us all not to forget who the gate-keeper is of Christianity.

My view on arguments about Trinity, divinity, deity and polytheism is that they distract us from really understanding the phenomenon of Jesus. Christianity is not a science and nor is it a religion of technicalities. Christianity is a religion of the heart and for that reason I don't believe we should even be arguing about Trinity, divinity, deity and polytheism because these things have nothing to do with the heart of the individual seeking God but are fleeting notions of cold logic that detract from the experience of the heart and soul of Christianity.

Whether we are talking about JWs or non-JWs, what matters is that we live Christianity with the heart not the head. Some JWs and non-JWs live with their heads. They are the ones who are most likely to argue with each other about whether the other is being Christian or not. Those who live with their hearts know that these arguments are pointless.

I don't believe in the WatchTower Society. I don't believe in Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Anglicanism, Anabaptism, Baptism, etc. I believe in Jesus.

I don't believe in organisations and ideology, but I do believe in people. I believe in Jesus, in Catholics, in Mormons, in Jehovah's Witnesses, in Anglicans, in Baptists, Anabaptists, etc. I denounce the organisation and its ideology, but not the person.

When the issue comes up as to whether a Catholic, Protestant, Mormon or JW is "in the light," I believe it is only necessary to say one thing: that Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except through me." Everything else is unnecessary IMHO.

Take away the WatchTower Society, the Roman Catholic Church, the Mormon Church and all the little Protestant churches, the man-made kingdoms of Christianity, take away the doctrines we have formed in the past 2,000 years, especially the Trinity, which was a by-product of politics in the fourth century, and one thing remains: Jesus.

One may think that tradition is important. I say nay. Tradition is only temporary. Tradition only exists for adherents to find common ground in a community. The purpose of tradition is to maintain a collective psyche, to assure ourselves that we gather together for the same purpose. Unfortunately, people won't always agree about traditions.

Jesus is beyond tradition. The Trinity or whatever alternative concept you have about Jesus' relationship with God is tradition that arises out of politics local to a time, place and culture. When you argue about Trinity and its alternatives you are arguing about tradition. It's a fact that Jesus never said you had to believe in the Trinity, and nor did he ever say it was essential to get the nature of God right.

These beliefs arose out of the politics of the fourth century because of Arianism, where it was believed that it was important to get the nature of God right. Before then, I am sure, Christians didn't really care. Arius duped the Christians into caring about the nature of God, and ever since we've been arguing about it. Arianism has since disappeared into insignificance, but it was a very nice way of sabotaging and undermining Christianity and getting people focused on the wrong things. I think it's best that we move on and leave these mistakes behind.

If people bicker over the Trinity, its alternatives and the nature of God, it's done out of habit. It's become a tradition. The past generation contemplated the nature of God in Christianity, so the present generation continues it. The trouble is that people spend so much time contemplating the nature of God in Christianity but they forget to ask themselves if it's even necessary in Christianity.

When you read in the New Testament about all the struggles the early Christian community faced, how often did the apostles say it was important to contemplate the nature of God? My impression was that they were more concerned about their relationship with God than His nature. What wasn't essential or necessary for the early Christians is not essential or necessary for us either.

nice post, some excellent points there :)
 
It strikes me that JWs have themselves declared that they are not part of the rest of Christianity (to JWs aka as the whore of babylon).

If you draw a circle around yourself and declare everone else wrong, who is responsible for the separation?

That said, I think it is not for us to judge who is a 'Christian' or 'saved' and who is not. As Seattlegal pointed out, it only leads to devouring each other and tearing down, rather than healing and building up.

JWs may be taught to believe that but in much the same way the rest of us are taught to believe that because they are against the Trinity that disqualifies them from being Christian. Jesus and even the apostles who came later were never recorded as having said that in the New Testament. Therefore, if we now follow teachings that not even Jesus and the apostles taught, then we'd be just as bad as the JWs.

I don't blame people for believing something (apart from what Jesus and the apostles said) because they were taught to do it. We do it out of habit. Past generations did it, so we continue to do it.

Neglecting issues with the translation they use, I don't believe that what the JWs believe is entirely pure because it is based on an ideological system projected by the WatchTower Society, but then I could say that nothing else in the wider world of Christianity is pure. The rest of Christianity is largely driven by ideology and that is no better than following the WatchTower ideology. We have all followed concepts not taught by Jesus and the apostles.

Christians are like sheep. If one Christian does something in a congregation that sounds and looks good, many others will start doing it too. This is how these things spread spatially and temporally, geographically and over time, over the generations. It will continue until people start thinking more deeply about why they do what they do. By then it will probably be too late. By then it will have become established tradition.

People know, only vaguely, the purpose of the New Testament, and of remembering what the early Christians did. We just don't know what we should be projecting into this time and place.
 
No problem with any of that salt. I embrace JWs as my sisters and brothers in Christ. Do they feel the same way toward me?
 
I think we can say that Christianity in all its versions regards Jesus Christ as God, certainly for the first 1,500 years ... in fact it might be easier to identify who do not believe in the Son's divinity — I think one can say that is not a Christian viewpoint.

Indeed, that's the basis I would have gone on, which I think would only really exclude the Arians. :)

A number of groups have since grown within or from Christianity which hold a range of often different and conflicting interpretations - but usually hold onto the core message of Jesus as God for Salvation as the core message, as Saltmeister stated.

I personally wouldn't even bring in the Nicene Creed as a distinction, unless it were to simply designate some Christians as Nicene and some as not - yet still retaining the core message above as keeping them within the definition of Christian.

JW's and Mormon's may indeed have added their own books to run alongside the Bible, but it's hard not to find any denomination which has not published a range of viewpoints defining their own doctrines and accepted translations.

Roman Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Coptic, JW, Mormon, denominational - all will have signficant differences but are still built on a core message.

Christianity literally seems like a plant with many branches. :)
 
Back
Top