Burn the Qu'ran day?

[juantoo3]

Then who was OBL tryin to impress with the fireworks?

Impress? Or silence?

It just strikes me odd that if the moderates are the majority as we are told, why do they let the radicals run so much of the show?

One kook here, and everybody in town and across the country is shouting him down.

Not so in the Muslim world, or at least that is how it seems. It seems that the only Muslim voices being raised, here or there, are the radicals. Ever.

 

[juantoo3]

????????????
What are you talking about?

Between Obama's speech and a little meeting with some boys from the CIA (was that reported in the news?), in addition to threats from the mayor of the city, and this guy backs down...

Civil rights? Yeah, sure.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I think I will download a copy of the Koran to my ipod, and then at the appropriate time delete it.

Chris

 

[c0de]

Impress? Or silence?

well, they were silent before... so...

It just strikes me odd that if the moderates are the majority as we are told, why do they let the radicals run so much of the show?

One kook here, and everybody in town and across the country is shouting him down.

Not so in the Muslim world, or at least that is how it seems.It seems that the only Muslim voices being raised, here or there, are the radicals. Ever.

if the moderates started raising their voice, they wouldn't be moderates, would they?

think about it

 

[Saltmeister]

well, they were silent before... so...

if the moderates started raising their voice, they wouldn't be moderates, would they?

think about it

I think you're taking the word "moderate" a bit too literally.

Better words to describe the moderate and radical factions are pacifist, liberal, pragmatic, aggressive, antagonist, war-mongering, supremacist, separatist, expansionist, mainstream, fundamentalist, legalistic, etc.

I don't know why they chose a word called "moderate." Not all "extremism" is bad. The kinds of "extremism" I do consider destructive, malignant and detrimental to society and the human race are aggression, militancy, war mongering, supremacism, fundamentalism, legalism, judgmentalism and antagonism.

I am more in favour of pacifism, liberalism, pragmatism and balanced assertiveness with consideration for the needs of others.

I am neutral on separatism. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.

 

[17th Angel]

I am not saying 123 anything about violence or killing lol... I am sure that wouldn't be bob's intention either if he saw a people's to be inferior... There is like no law of thumb if a people are inferior they must be destroyed lol.

 

[c0de]

I think you're taking the word "moderate" a bit too literally.

all i did, was use a word's definition, to define the word dude...

lol

Better words to describe the moderate and radical factions are pacifist, liberal, pragmatic, aggressive, antagonist, war-mongering, supremacist, separatist, expansionist, mainstream, fundamentalist, legalistic, etc.

I don't know why they chose a word called "moderate." Not all "extremism" is bad. The kinds of "extremism" I do consider destructive, malignant and detrimental to society and the human race are aggression, militancy, war mongering, supremacism, fundamentalism, legalism, judgmentalism and antagonism.

I am more in favour of pacifism, liberalism, pragmatism and balanced assertiveness with consideration for the needs of others.

I am neutral on separatism. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad.

I don't know either.

lets file a complaint.

 

[Sam Albion]

wow... a good old fashioned book burning!

too bad i won't be able to attend!

he is stealing a bit of my thunder, however, as i was planning to create an interactive art project that allowed one to catapult miniature flaming Al Qur'ans at a diorama of Jerusalem while Ride of the Valkyries is blaring over the loudspeakers with chants of "Allahu Akbar" layered on top for my art festival project this year!

grr >.<

metta,

~v

hahahaaaaa

 

[Sam Albion]

hopefully it wont provoke a violent frenzy of fanatical hatred.

hahahahahaaa

 

[Sam Albion]

Let's see if I have this straight...

Burning an American flag is OK...that's just "expression."

A cartoon of Mohammed...is that OK today still?...that's just expression.

Burning a Bible is just expression, last I checked.

Beating your wife in Sharia is acceptable.

Executing a convert to another faith is acceptable in Sharia.

Institutional hatred of Jews *and* Christians *and* Buddhists is acceptable in Sharia.

But burning a Koran, that's just hatred!

Have I got this correct?

hhahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa

 

[juantoo3]

well, they were silent before... so...

if the moderates started raising their voice, they wouldn't be moderates, would they?

think about it

Maybe if they spoke up and put the radicals in their place, the radicals wouldn't be so brazen.

Think about it.

Silence is tacit agreement.

Whether true or not, remaining silent implies the moderates agree with the radicals.

 

[juantoo3]

Headline in today's paper:

"Obama calls for religious tolerance"

I agree.

So, when is Islam going to start being tolerant?

 

[Paladin]

It appears Nietzsche was right. Am I the only one that is saddened and tired by the back an forth on this subject? At what point is our best response sophomoric, juvenile retribution?

 

[Janz]

I am too Paladin! The response here has sadden me as well. For those who are looking for Muslims who support Reformation of Islam..here are a couple. Just remember that the mainstream media will never cover them but you can catch Irshad Manji tomorrow on ABC' News'

"This Week with Christiane Amanpour": This Week with Christiane Amanpour - ABC News.

For more information on Irshad Manji see: Irshad Manji blog and official website home
http://www.facebook.com/reqs.php#!/pages/Irshad-Manji/7903274577

For another more Moderate Voice see Reza Aslan: Reza Aslan

Both of them are my heroes!

 

[Amica]

The pastor is an idiot, and has been lying about many things. So, what proof does anyone have that he received 'death threats'?

Having said that, Muslims consider burning of a quranic verse a respectful way to dispose of qur'anic text. Provided, the ashes must be deposited in a clean dirt hole where there is no one walking on it or doing anything dispecable.

 

[juantoo3]

It appears Nietzsche was right. Am I the only one that is saddened and tired by the back an forth on this subject? At what point is our best response sophomoric, juvenile retribution?

Didn't Nietzsche call people "cattle?"

I've come to the conclusion I have buried my head long enough on the issue, I have been avoiding it too.

If sophomoric, juvenile retribution sparks people to *really* thinking and looking at the issues...I think that is a good thing. Nothing else to date has worked, and I think if we wait until something drastic happens to spark that discussion then it will be too late.

As for "back and forth," outside of one brief comment on another thread, this is the first I've said anything to this issue in well over a year...anywhere.

Avoidance doesn't address the issue. This is, afterall, an *Interfaith* forum...to explore ways of mutual cooperation and respect between faiths. Where else should this be discussed, if not here?

 

[juantoo3]

I am too Paladin! The response here has sadden me as well. For those who are looking for Muslims who support Reformation of Islam..here are a couple. Just remember that the mainstream media will never cover them but you can catch Irshad Manji tomorrow on ABC' News'

"This Week with Christiane Amanpour": This Week with Christiane Amanpour - ABC News.

For more information on Irshad Manji see: Irshad Manji blog and official website home
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For another more Moderate Voice see Reza Aslan: Reza Aslan

Both of them are my heroes!

Thank you Janz.

What pains me is that after all the trouble American people go through to be sympathetic and accomodating, it seems we are still treated like some vile infection...*infidels*. Now, I do understand that some of this has to do with politics...Washington isn't always the best neighbor. And some of this has to do with radical Islamic elements overhyping our nut cases to support their own causes. Surely most Muslims understand that the typical American isn't burning Korans every other day as a hobby?

And Americans want to know (at least I do) why moderate Islam isn't doing more to quell and stop (or at least slow down) the tidal wave of radicalism?

I appreciate the links, I enjoyed the article by Miss Manji, we need a couple hundred more just like her.

Mr. Aslan seems erudite, but I didn't see anything in the quick scan of his writing that addresses this issue.

Where I am at I cannot see the ABC interview, and I haven't seen enough of the New York Imam to form an opinion.

 

[juantoo3]

The pastor is an idiot, and has been lying about many things. So, what proof does anyone have that he received 'death threats'?

Thank you Amica.

It seems to me there is sufficient untruth on both sides. And certainly we should not suspect death threats...no Muslim would ever do such a thing...

 

[Paladin]

Didn't Nietzsche call people "cattle?"

I've come to the conclusion I have buried my head long enough on the issue, I have been avoiding it too.

If sophomoric, juvenile retribution sparks people to *really* thinking and looking at the issues...I think that is a good thing. Nothing else to date has worked, and I think if we wait until something drastic happens to spark that discussion then it will be too late.

As for "back and forth," outside of one brief comment on another thread, this is the first I've said anything to this issue in well over a year...anywhere.

Avoidance doesn't address the issue. This is, afterall, an *Interfaith* forum...to explore ways of mutual cooperation and respect between faiths. Where else should this be discussed, if not here?

Juan,
I would never single you out and make you responsible for the horrendous, base behavior I have seen on this subject. Also, I do not advocate for avoidance, though at times it can be a viable strategy.

I cannot see how base behavior can be a cause for critical thinking on the subject. It is antithetical to good interfaith dialogue.

As an aside, Nietzsche was a very complicated individual on the cusp between atheism and religion. A thorough reading of Zarathustra reveals this. I was referring to an old quote:

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

I think this is from Good and Evil

 

[Janz]

Thank you Janz.

And Americans want to know (at least I do) why moderate Islam isn't doing more to quell and stop (or at least slow down) the tidal wave of radicalism?

I appreciate the links, I enjoyed the article by Miss Manji, we need a couple hundred more just like her.

Where I am at I cannot see the ABC interview, and I haven't seen enough of the New York Imam to form an opinion.

I wonder what do you expect the moderates to do? How can they be expected to stop or quell the problem? Would anything meet your satisfaction? Maybe there are many who are doing so but you haven't heard about what they are doing.. How many moderates have helped our soldiers in Iraq? Many of them did and some paid for it with their lives. How do you stop a person from blowing themselves up and taking other innocents with them?

Juan Cole has a list of Muslim clerics who have issued fatwas against terrorism:
Informed Comment

see also: Statements Against Terror

Plus: http://www.juancole.com/2010/09/top-ways-911-broke-islamic-law.html

He also reminds us that the Algerian government fought a virtual civil war to put down political Islam, in which over 100,000 persons died. The Egyptians jailed 20,000 or 30,000 radicals for thought crimes and killed 1500 in running street battles in the 1990s and early zeroes.

I have befriended several young women via Facebook from Pakistan and we have had many excellent conversations. They are very moderate in their beliefs and it is refreshing to know that. Just a small part that I can do. They are sisters and one told me that she is honored to have me as a friend.

Has anyone here ever heard of Greg Mortenson? He is another amazing human being who has done much for peace and understanding..read his books!!

Greg Mortenson is the co-founder of nonprofit Central Asia Institute www.ikat.org , founder of Pennies For Peace www.penniesforpeace.org , and co-author of the #1 New York Times bestseller Three Cups of Tea www.threecupsoftea.com , and author of the bestseller Stones into Schools www.stonesintoschools.com .
In 2009, Mortenson received Pakistan’s highest civil award, Sitara-e-Pakistan (“Star of Pakistan”) for his dedicated and humanitarian effort to promote education and literacy in rural areas for fifteen years.