The significance of the life and death of Jesus?

[Princely]

Gatekeeper Wrote;

I don't reject you, just what you believe to be true. We get all kinds around here. We are a very diverse group. You are claiming some kind of good news when for the majority of us, it wouldn't be good news at all. Also, there are many who aren't in this for eternal life. Some of us could care less, actually.

I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him.
How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God?

Gatekeeper Wrote;

Some of us focus on today, how we live, what we contribute to our society, and how we treat others. For those of us who think this way, it is enough to lead a productive life. We can die knowing we did our best in other words.

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find peace for yourselves.
For my yoke is peaceful, and my burden is light.

Gatekeeper Wrote;

With that being said, what are the conditions for eternal life according to you? Saying, "Hear my words" is not enough, nor is "Accept my views" enough. Give us some crumbs, or rather be clear the conditions for eternal life as you understand them.

I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me even though he died he will come to life and anyone who lives and believes in me will never die.

My sheep hear my voice; I know them and they follow me, I give them eternal life and they will never perish.

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Lord except through me.
If you know me, then you will also know my Father.
Whoever has seen me has seen the Lord.
Do you not believe that I am in the Lord and the Lord is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Lord who lives in me is doing his works. Believe me that I am in the Lord and the Lord is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.
Truly I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do.

The reason I was born and the reason I came into the world is to testify to the truth. Anyone committed to the truth hears my voice."

 

[mojobadshah]

Most people fail to see exactly why Jesus did what He did. He came to spread the truth the word of God. That was His mission. People try to understand in the way man thinks instead of finding out how God thinks.Jesus said he was sent to proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God. He said the reason the son of man was born and came into the world was to testify to the truth, and that Gods word is truth.His death and resurrection were merely an example of what happens to people who truly believe in Him and follow Him. They are dead in spirit but rise from the dead of spirit once they continue in His words and teachings. Like He said "What I have done that is what you must do. As the Father sent me that's how I send you".

As He said so do I;

I am the resurrection and the life; anyone who believes in me, even though he died, he will come to life, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.


All those who do right will rise to live,the evildoers will rise to be damned.

The reason I was born and the reason I came into the world is to testify to the truth. Anyone committed to the truth hears my voice.

People need truth or "certainty" in their lives. Today so much so that the issue of "certainty" has become a global issue.

[FONT=&quot][e]nhance, certainty, transparency, mutual respect and understanding in relations between indigenous peoples and traditional and cultural communities, on the one hand, and academic, commercial, governmental, educational and other users of TCEs/EoF, on the other..... [/FONT][FONT=&quot]– annex 1.I.xiii [/FONT][FONT=&quot]WIPO Intergovernmental Committee on Intellectual Property and Genetic Resources, Traditional Knowledge and Folklore[/FONT]
A community's cultural expressions, its identity, and authority go hand in hand.

[FONT=&quot]The Yolngu are a group of Aboriginal Australians, from Arnhem Land in the Northern Territory. Ceremonial designs are owned by clans, and handed down from generation to generation, but only certain people have the authority to paint them and to authorize their use...They show where a person comes from, and who they are...Once we start thinking of Yolngu paintings as coats of arms, then we begin to see an entirely different pattern of ethical issues arising from the unauthorized production, and artistic adaptation of such paintings. To use a coat of arms without authority is fraud, in the same way that the unauthorized use of an individual's signature is fraud. To produce it without permission is forgery.... As cultural forms, they are far more dynamic than art. - Christoph Beat Braber, Mira Burri Nenova, Intellectual property and traditional cultural expressions in a digital environment pg. 70-71[/FONT]

Whether or no Jesus actually lived is one thing, but what I can agree with is that the character of Jesus was a symbol of "the truth." The Churches, the Mosques, and the Synogogues, on the other hand are not concerned with the truth. How do I KNOW this? Because it is WELL ESTABLISHED that a majority of the expressions that these authority structures utilize were derived from the Aryan cultural heritage, and even if you wanted to argue that expressions like Yaweh, Allah, or Jesus developed independently it would not change the fact that are characteristic of the Aryan expression Ahura Mazda is primal to the Abrahamic expressions. So if the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim authority structures really cared about Jesus or "the truth" the Aryan community would be consistently be the victim of western propaganda. The monotheist Aryans (Irano-Afghans) were made out to be the barbarians since their conflicts with the polytheistic Greeks. And today the media makes the bad apple terrorists out to be representative of the entire Aryan zone. If the government and these organizations really cared about battling terrorism the Aryan community would be getting compensated for the use of these expressions which were attested to by them long before they were attested to by Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

 

[Gatekeeper]

I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him.
How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God?


Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find peace for yourselves.
For my yoke is peaceful, and my burden is light.



I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me even though he died he will come to life and anyone who lives and believes in me will never die.

My sheep hear my voice; I know them and they follow me, I give them eternal life and they will never perish.

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Lord except through me.
If you know me, then you will also know my Father.
Whoever has seen me has seen the Lord.
Do you not believe that I am in the Lord and the Lord is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Lord who lives in me is doing his works. Believe me that I am in the Lord and the Lord is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.
Truly I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do.

The reason I was born and the reason I came into the world is to testify to the truth. Anyone committed to the truth hears my voice."

You're typing messages on a message board, stealing the words of Jesus as if they are your own, yet you have shown us nothing except a desire for us to view you as the Christ. I know where I stand, but thank you just the same. I think I'll continue the journey I began 40 some years ago and lean on love as opposed to your understanding.


Btw, you haven't testified to anything as far as I can tell. O.k. you say you are the truth, yet you haven't told us anything about yourself. Are we to simply believe because you say you are him? Give me a break! I'll gladly step to your left if I am required to believe you're the messiah blindly.

 

[Princely]

Princely - exactly which chapters and verses of the bible are not the "word of the Lord"?

And, is the "word of the Lord" found anywhere else besides the bible? For example, the sutras or Popul Vuh or vedas?

The word of the Lord comes from the mouth of the Lord, His prophets.As scripture says salvation is put in Zion and the Lords glory is given to Israel and no other. It is not found in those books you named. You can find the quotes of the Lord throughout the bible. Most of the books of the OT contain quotes, but the NT is filled with obstruction. Only the Gospels and revelations are good for acquiring understanding and the words of Jesus and the Lord.


"I put salvation in Zion and give to Israel my glory. I give my glory to no other."

 

[Lunitik]

"I put salvation in Zion and give to Israel my glory. I give my glory to no other."

What does Israel mean though? What is Zion?

 

[Lunitik]

Israel is the man who has struggled with God.
Zion references the primal point - the truth of God.

Salvation can be this very moment, it is simply to realize your true nature, to see you are one with existence. To deny or avoid this is to reject salvation, it is not simply given by belief - it is such a great love that you are willing to die in it, that death is salvation.

I feel bad for the Christians, so much was there in the Gnostic texts but they cannot read them. The Jews have the Talmud and the mystic branches, but Christianity is left with theological nonsense alone. It gives no devices to attain to truth, it simply tries to explain it to your mind. Truth is something you encounter when you go beyond mind, but mind can never touch it.

Without any scripture though, it can be attained... simply love existence and all things within it, know it is all one integrated whole, trust it utterly. Forget yourself, realize how puny your current identification is and let it melt into existence. You will encounter a type of death, it means you are close, simply go on watching - it is not happening to you, it is happening to your mind.

Now you see you are eternal, you are immortal, only the false will die.

 

[mojobadshah]

The word of the Lord comes from the mouth of the Lord, His prophets.As scripture says salvation is put in Zion and the Lords glory is given to Israel and no other. It is not found in those books you named. You can find the quotes of the Lord throughout the bible. Most of the books of the OT contain quotes, but the NT is filled with obstruction. Only the Gospels and revelations are good for acquiring understanding and the words of Jesus and the Lord.


"I put salvation in Zion and give to Israel my glory. I give my glory to no other."

This kind of language demonstrates how Christianity is a Jewish construct designed to subject the gentiles or the Persians (Aryans), Greeks, the Romans, and probably the Celts, to Jewish authority. The Jewish phrase "love your neighbor" comes from the same line of thought wherein "neighbor" initially referred to the only neighbors the Jews had at the time it came into use: the Jews.

 

[Lunitik]

The ring around Christs head in many pictures is the same as around Buddha and Krishna and various others... it seems no one is aware this simply means they are enlightened - it represents the crown chakra opening.

Man is born as a seed, we can see this in the ego, how stone-like it is, it is certainly protective of something more subtle. You too can sprout though, poke out of the stony exterior and see the world without this shell filtering the experience. The enlightened man is a fully bloomed flower, if you go on taking in nutrients, sustenance, if you go on growing, it is inevitable in you as well...

The problem is we think priests know what they are talking about, they are merely trying to create a business but they know nothing, they have not experienced salvation, liberation from the idiocy of mind.

 

[Lunitik]

This kind of language demonstrates how Christianity is a Jewish construct designed to subject the gentiles or the Persians (Aryans), Greeks, the Romans, and probably the Celts, to Jewish authority. The Jewish phrase "love your neighbor" comes from the same line of thought wherein "neighbor" initially referred to the only neighbors the Jews had at the time it came into use: the Jews.

Love is the fragrance of the divine, just as perfume is the fragrance of the flower. This is why all the faiths go on enhancing your love, because this is the essence of the oneness I go on talking about.

You can consider Christianity a conspiracy if you'd like, but I say it is merely a path that has too much meandering. There are paths which almost teleport you to God, but this seems to be uncomfortable for most. There seems to be a necessity for some kind of rationale as a background, people can't just let-go into what is, here-now.

The faiths are exactly that: grounds for trust, nothing more. Trust is not enough though, it is only the reassurance that it is ok to let-go.

 

[Lunitik]

Something else interesting is the meaning of Jerusalem - Place of Peace.

What is intended by peace? It is a state of contentment, completeness, wholeness - which is also what Holy means, whole.

You will note this is quite similar to the concepts of liberation, and the oneness which I continuously speak.


While we're at it, apocalypse means "to lift a veil and reveal something hidden".

Armageddon is just a wrong translation, "Har" means hill, Megiddo is the name of the hill in English. Strange what this has come to mean in order to instill fear in people.

 

[mojobadshah]

Love is the fragrance of the divine, just as perfume is the fragrance of the flower. This is why all the faiths go on enhancing your love, because this is the essence of the oneness I go on talking about.

You can consider Christianity a conspiracy if you'd like, but I say it is merely a path that has too much meandering. There are paths which almost teleport you to God, but this seems to be uncomfortable for most. There seems to be a necessity for some kind of rationale as a background, people can't just let-go into what is, here-now.

The faiths are exactly that: grounds for trust, nothing more. Trust is not enough though, it is only the reassurance that it is ok to let-go.

It's not that I'd like to consider Christianity a conspiracy. Christianity was created to undermine the historical truth which begins with a man named Zarathushtra and lives on today with the Aryans (Irano-Afghans). Before Christianity the Greco-Romans polytheists at war with the Irano-Afghans. There were Christians in the Irano-Afghan zone. The Greco-Romans adopted Christianity, and the Aryans (Irano-Afghans) were forced to purge the now Holy Roman Empire from the Holy Zoroastrian Empire. The Christians are still at war with the Aryans today. The only difference is that there are more Aryans in the "West" than there are "Westerners" in the Aryan (Irano-Afghan) zone. So the Christians fall on lies to defend whatever false authority they have left. That includes creating lies to invade sovereign nations. Bin Laden was a CIA operative, bro. After the Cold War the Americans put Bin Laden in Afghanistan, present day Aryana, the home of the Aryans, and they kept the Pakistanis close.

 

[radarmark]

mojobadshah and lunitik,

I for one love your posts! In my personal life I only real dealings with ideologs is when I deal with a fringe Christian element hereabouts (part of the reason I stayed in Yellow Springs, the diversity). I also love the philosophical and historical challenges you make to what I always thought was a pretty settled objectivity.

 

[Lunitik]

It's not that I'd like to consider Christianity a conspiracy. Christianity was created to undermine the historical truth which begins with a man named Zarathushtra and lives on today with the Aryans (Irano-Afghans). Before Christianity the Greco-Romans polytheists at war with the Irano-Afghans. There were Christians in the Irano-Afghan zone. The Greco-Romans adopted Christianity, and the Aryans (Irano-Afghans) were forced to purge the now Holy Roman Empire from the Holy Zoroastrian Empire. The Christians are still at war with the Aryans today. The only difference is that there are more Aryans in the "West" than there are "Westerners" in the Aryan (Irano-Afghan) zone. So the Christians fall on lies to defend whatever false authority they have left. That includes creating lies to invade sovereign nations. Bin Laden was a CIA operative, bro. After the Cold War the Americans put Bin Laden in Afghanistan, present day Aryana, the home of the Aryans, and they kept the Pakistanis close.

I love Zarathustra and Jesus equally, they have encountered the same thing, they have both found their way home. I am just not sure what all this gets us, certainly Christianity and Islam and even Hinduism would not be as popular today without government enforcement of the faith, but it is really irrelevant. Still each give many nuggets which are extremely important, irrelevant of the exterior nonsenses that have arisen.

Find where each has pointed, what has happened in relation to the finger that points is irrelevant, still the finger remains pointed in the same direction. It is mans stupidity that has caused any of these men to be singled out, each is discussing exactly the same and should have been combined long ago to assist all seekers on the path. The destination is what matters, the path taken is irrelevant. We get too caught up with the journey though, arguing about which is most beautiful, it simply doesn't matter if you find the truth.

 

[Lunitik]

mojobadshah and lunitik,

I for one love your posts! In my personal life I only real dealings with ideologs is when I deal with a fringe Christian element hereabouts (part of the reason I stayed in Yellow Springs, the diversity). I also love the philosophical and historical challenges you make to what I always thought was a pretty settled objectivity.

I do not speak of an ideal, I speak of truth. I am not interested in philosophy at all, because I know to attain to anything you must go beyond mind. Objectivity is a part of duality, you do not seem to recognize it is merely your perception that distances something enough to call it other.

I have been saying lately that God is the objectification of the divine, yet you consider yourself subjectively as a man. This is a duality, and it describes theosis - the transcendence of this duality.

It is not an ideology though, it is merely pointing the way home.

 

[radarmark]

Nope! It is an echo from a HUGE EGO. I still have the basic question (which you have never answered) what is going beyond the mind? If by mind one means mentality, thoughts, which mean contents or consciousness?

See you fracture a single beauty (the universe) into multiple things. I say that the experience is physical and mental and (can be) spiritual. It just is. You so not cross over but get all caught up in your preconceptions ("consciousness is separate from mind", "mind is as aspect of physicality" [since you deny the existence of mind but happily accept the existence of matter]). No, experience (that of which the Kosmos is built) has some characteristics one might call physical or mental or spiritual. But these three aspects are products of your mind (not mine). I hold the all undifferentiated. Thus I again reject your very small conception of truth.

 

[Lunitik]

Nope! It is an echo from a HUGE EGO. I still have the basic question (which you have never answered) what is going beyond the mind? If by mind one means mentality, thoughts, which mean contents or consciousness?

See you fracture a single beauty (the universe) into multiple things. I say that the experience is physical and mental and (can be) spiritual. It just is. You so not cross over but get all caught up in your preconceptions ("consciousness is separate from mind", "mind is as aspect of physicality" [since you deny the existence of mind but happily accept the existence of matter]). No, experience (that of which the Kosmos is built) has some characteristics one might call physical or mental or spiritual. But these three aspects are products of your mind (not mine). I hold the all undifferentiated. Thus I again reject your very small conception of truth.

To go beyond mind means a state in which mind does not function - it doesn't mean brain doesn't function, brain actually performs at a higher capacity. It is not to split anything, it is to realize the falseness of that belief that you are distinct - that you are the mind, mind is just another phenomenon you can observe. I have never upheld matter at all, not even science confirms matter anymore, how can a mystic? I do not deny the body, but at the microscopic level, it too is not something material.

It is humorous that your misunderstandings of my words are your basis for rejecting them... it is for a reason these things are said, the very purpose of religion is find that which is unmanifest and permanent. It means that whatsoever is transitory is not that, when you get deep enough you find what is called God within yourself, and yet in that finding you realize you are the whole - this is awakening.

It does not mean that phenomenon should be rejected, it can be enjoyed. It is just that attachment to the false is what brings suffering, to know the real is to find a deep peace.

 

[Lunitik]

This is why Jesus and Krishna are called God incarnate though, people misunderstand that they too contain the seed of God so they go on worshiping a flower.

There is not much difference, just the distance from potential to its realization.

 

[IowaGuy]

Also, there are many who aren't in this for eternal life. Some of us could care less, actually.

Hi Gate - you have said before that you are a Christian and focus on the present moment and aren't that concerned about eternal life. (I'm in that same boat but as a non-Christian)

But why do you think Jesus talked so much about eternal life and heaven if he didn't consider it extremely important? He certainly didn't "care less" about eternal life!

i.e. how can one consider themselves a Christian and yet ignore this part of Christ's teachings? Doesn't being a Christian go hand-in-hand with eternal life and Jesus' resurrection? Can one be a Christian yet not believe in the resurrection?

 

[Princely]

You're typing messages on a message board, stealing the words of Jesus as if they are your own, yet you have shown us nothing except a desire for us to view you as the Christ. I know where I stand, but thank you just the same. I think I'll continue the journey I began 40 some years ago and lean on love as opposed to your understanding.


Btw, you haven't testified to anything as far as I can tell. O.k. you say you are the truth, yet you haven't told us anything about yourself. Are we to simply believe because you say you are him? Give me a break! I'll gladly step to your left if I am required to believe you're the messiah blindly.

I am not stealing the words they are free to those who choose to follow Him. He was the one who said He was giving His words to those who accept them and that His followers would go into the world as he did. I am different from Christians in the way that I do just what he did as he said to.If you want to know the truth this is the way to know it. I know because I do it. Here are the verses to support that He sent me with His words and His mission.

Bk of John;

(Father) "I revealed your name to those whom you gave me out of the world. They belonged to you, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
Now they know that everything you gave me is from you,
because the words you gave to me I have given to them, and they accepted them and truly understood that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.

They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth.
As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.
And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth.
"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
so that they may all be One, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be One, as we are One,
I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as One, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.

Truly I say to you, whoever receives the one I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.

So as you can see Jesus made me One with God and sent me into the world with the same words and mission."The reason I was born and came into the world is to spread the truth".

"Man does not live by bread alone but by every word from the mouth of the Lord".

Psalms;

Blessed are those who observe what is right, who do always what is just.

111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it possess virtue.. His praise endures forever.

119:1 Blessed are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the Lord. Blessed are those who keep his decrees, who seek him with their whole heart, 3 who do no wrong, but walk in his ways.

128:1 Happy is everyone who fears the Lord, who walks in his ways. You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands; you shall be happy, and it shall go well with you.

I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.
Everything that the Lord gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me,
because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should lose nothing of what he gave me, but that I should raise it on the last day.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him possesses eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day.
No one can come to me unless the Lord who sent me draws him, and I will raise him on the last day.

The hour is coming, and is now here, when genuine worshipers will worship the Lord in spirit and truth, for the Lord wants to be worshiped in such a manner. For God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Hi Gate - you have said before that you are a Christian and focus on the present moment and aren't that concerned about eternal life. (I'm in that same boat but as a non-Christian)

But why do you think Jesus talked so much about eternal life and heaven if he didn't consider it extremely important? He certainly didn't "care less" about eternal life!

i.e. how can one consider themselves a Christian and yet ignore this part of Christ's teachings? Doesn't being a Christian go hand-in-hand with eternal life and Jesus' resurrection? Can one be a Christian yet not believe in the resurrection?

Yes, Jesus spoke of eternal life, but I don't think eternal life is important to focus on, or even to form a belief about. Jesus obviously thought it was worth teaching, however. Is it true? Who really knows? I myself don't think it matters if a person believes it or not.


Christian, to me, is about following the ways of the Christ. Is it necessary to believe a certain way in order to call oneself a Christian, then? I don't think so, but many do believe this.


Christianity is less about belief, and much more about how we conduct our lives and how we treat our fellow man. In other words, it is more of a way of life, and not so much a system of belief for me.